Intro:
Welcome to “CEO INSIGHTS”, a podcast on influence and negotiation in which CEOs (or ex-CEOs) of international companies come to share their approach and experience of negotiation and influence. I am your host Ludovic Tendron, I am a business and strategic partnerships developer, hospitality lawyer, expert negotiator, and the author of the Master Key: Unlock Your Influence and Succeed in Negotiation.
I have the pleasure to welcome today Marine Tanguy, a ground breaking maverick in the art industry. Marine is the founder and CEO of MTArt Agency, in the 30 under 30 Forbes list of the brightest young entrepreneurs in the art business. She was also as muse for Chloe luxury fashion house.
Ludovic:
Hi Marine, a great pleasure to have you with us today from Île de Ré. How are you today?
Marine:
Yes, very well. Lovely to be here.
Ludovic:
Great. You are the founder of MTArt agency, the successful agency supporting, promoting and investing in talented visual artists. I love your business model. I think it's very smart. Can you tell us more about it?
Marine:
Yes, I've been in the art world for a good 13 years now. I was a young girl who liked Steve Lazarides who discovered Banksy and Jr when I was 21. And then I was approached by an investor who had an advertising agency in Los Angeles, when I was still running the Gallery in London to open more galleries on a 5050 basis. So he will be the investor and I will be building the business basically. And this is very much where I met the person that kind of changed the way I was looking at building a business in the sector which he was. Michael Ovitz who built CA which is one of the largest talent agencies in the world, especially in the music, film and sports space. And I was kind of really inspired by how he kind of built such a large business. How you built the reputation of his talents and how he kind of reimagined the way in which his talents could inspire people at a very large scale, and people could buy into this. And I felt that instead the gallery felt like a very archaic luxury shop division. And less the powerful machine it could become if it was more of a CA model. So I therefore split with my first partner and business Sebag and then came back to London to build MTArt agency, which subsequently became the first art agency in the art world. So we're now in London, Paris and Monaco in terms of offices. There's two more offices coming up in the next year in the Middle East and the States. In terms of what we do is we spot talents, and hopefully the best ones in the sector. We're definitely more and more climbing the ladders in terms of the very established ones over the coming three months, and I can't yet reveal who, but there's a couple of artists who are in the top 20 in the world who are leaving the top galleries to join us. So we've slowly climbed our way to really hopefully being with the best which was always the ambition. And then in terms of the creative agency, very much like a CA annual time’s agency, we would advise all the top brands, public bodies, digital companies on how to integrate art into all these contexts, which ultimately becomes our expertise. Now, of course, the CA will do it with actresses, and studios and we will do it with therefore art as a vehicle. And for that matter, my senior team is very much built with entrepreneurs who have all run agencies in the past, and this is the reason we were able to kind of build two separate departments. So it's really fun, there's very much integration of the arts everywhere, which is very fulfilling, because it means we're inspiring very large audiences, but also supporting people who are incredibly inspiring.
Ludovic:
Right, so what role plays negotiation in your business?
Marine:
I think everything is a negotiation, especially in a sector that is non-regulated. Where ultimately, the value that I'm bringing in is people based. And that is whether you bring on the top employee, whether you bring on the top investors, whether you bring up the top client or talent. So negotiation is always at the core of it. But I think even beyond that, it's very much convincing the top people to be joining any project, so anything that we're building.
Ludovic:
Yes, because you have to negotiate with the artists. You have to negotiate with brands. You have to negotiate possibly with your staff, I would imagine. You have to negotiate at all levels all the time.
Marine:
Yes, I did. It's funny, and we spoke a little bit about it before, but I'm really objective and project focused, I bend to no spoon. And then I try and think how many people can we put behind that? And can we make this amazing thing happen? So I've never really, you know, I'm definitely not fitting like an 80’s movie about it. I get very excited about reaching objectives and making amazing things happen. So it's more really onboarding people than it is the idea of causing negotiating. It's more really convincing them that this is the right thing to onboard. Does that make sense? Which is part of it in negotiation for sure.
Ludovic:
So how have you developed and refined your negotiation skills over the years?
Marine:
Again, I think I just probably don't think of it as pure negotiation. I think I have refined, hopefully a good emotional and social intelligence because I manage people day in and day out. And I love people like I obviously do a job that's backing them. So you know, I think and I have also been lucky to be in the life where I'm...So when I met Michael Ovitz . I was 23. So I was positioned with someone who was a billionaire, was very influential. But I think I had a good sense on how to convince and get respect from those people. So I didn't even think of negotiation, I think it's more that I really cared about making sure that everyone respect what we're trying to build, and I can onboard the most amazing brains as we do that. So it's more of a social intelligence or emotional intelligence. And of course, you just keep on developing it. We've explained some time and I think you also, now we are making all those decisions by being a few of us. And a lot of my team have 20 or 30 year experience in doing that brilliantly. So I'm also just no more on my own trying to work out a situation or an outcome and very much brainstorming the best way possible to get to this outcome.
Ludovic:
Then you also learn like everyone else from some mistakes at a very early age. I would imagine?
Marine:
Yes, I'm lucky that the mistakes were never the most expensive ones I think. I think in a weird way. Yes, I think in a weird way. I don't know where that comes from. But the mistakes I made were never with the top people or the people who could change the course of my career or the business, I think. Yes, you always make mistakes, there's always a better way to deal with every people. I think there's always enormous room for improvement. But I'm lucky that my people's mistakes were not expensive. They were usually things I could improve on but they were not things that could collapse me or could totally change the way the business can be structured.
Ludovic:
Great. So art can be quite subjective and emotional. People call it an emotional asset. Does it affect your negotiation in any way or when you negotiate with an artist, or you negotiate over a masterpiece or something like this? Does it affect your negotiation? The fact that it's emotional, it could be also subjective, or is just a normal negotiation for you?
Marine:
I don't really think in terms of art or not art, I think it's really just about... I do believe we have represented people who are incredible and I do believe in the quality of the project. So when I see my friends who are either VCs or backing, I don't know, X companies, we will be speaking the same way. But just generally believe in what we are backing. So I think it's less pitching an asset, whether it's emotional or not emotional. When my friends who obviously invest in companies, they will pitch it emotionally because they think the funders, or the team are incredible. They think that company can change or disrupt the sector that they're in. So I will be speaking in very similar terms, in terms of our talents. And so now for sure there's a degree of subjectivity, because there's a degree of belief into the experience you have in spotting those people and then making sure that they get there. But I don't think there's any difference of emotion. If you invest in a company, or if you hold shares from it, you will be behaving in the same position that you're basically taking a bet on something to be very big and basing it on your experience and expertise of the market that you're reviewing basically.
Ludovic:
Understand. Do you think that women have different skill sets than men when it comes to influencing others, persuading others? Do you think the approach is different when you're a woman or the skill set?
Marine:
We spoke about it obviously before the session, I think and I'm very lucky that I was always mentored 5050 by men and women. So I've never felt gendered within the practice I was in. And I think obviously, I'm definitely a woman, and I have no issue with my gender whatsoever. But when it comes to the business world, I've never felt I was treated as a woman or as a man. I think, especially who was mentoring me or investing in me. Like we have So Klein, who is one of the top investors in Europe, or Helen, who's the same, and same with Frederic as well. And I've never felt I was addressed as a woman or a man, I always felt addressed as an entrepreneur. And I was more, in fact, I was addressed as an entrepreneur who was either building a small thing or a bigger thing, over different stages of a company at the time. So I personally never felt gendered. I think that that was really nice. It is one of the fastest growing demographic of high net worth in my sector are women. Because they were long, usually not really looked at by lots of the collectors, socially, economically. The reason the caring group, or some of the brands of LVMH work with us is because the urgencies of high net worth we have and hold are much more diverse than a lot of my competitors, which is a huge advantage. Now, I think that's more because I represented a woman and I was a female founder. But at no point did I behave differently to my male counterparts in any of those positions. And I was lucky that I was clearly cocoon, was in a world where Michael has addressed me as a founder, and he challenged me in the same way that he would with a male founder and expected me to respond in the same way as well. So yes, I've never really felt the difference from my part, personally.
Ludovic:
Very understanding. There's a number of people who think that women actually face greater challenges in business and in negotiation due to stereotypes, social pressure, etc. I understand that you haven’t experienced this. Do you think this is something real in the business world? Or this is something...
Marine:
It is real, I mean the numbers, that's different. I think the first question you asked was more, are we different? And the answer for me is like, I am not. Like, I'm just as competitive as any of my male founder’s counterpart and then the female founders I know are exactly the same. We just did a partnership with Whitney from Bumble, in fact, two weeks ago. I just don't see the difference between working with a man or a woman. Now, is society constructed to allow female founder to achieve as much? The answer is no, but that society constructs, it’s not a difference inherent to the human beings. It's more the fact that for sure, society has long been a place where it was harder to build a business if you were a woman. But it was not because women were different. It was because of society, in the same way that a black or white person will be no different in business, but its way harder to be building a business if you're black, because society is still putting loads of barriers in the way they wouldn't for white person. That's the same. Now, I'm sure and I hope someone who's black who say, I don't see a difference as a founder between me and them, in the way that they behave or in the way that they have ambition and in the way they have driven and in the way that they're building a company. That sadly is still a society construct. It’s changing, as I said it's turning out to an advantage for us. Because the fact that we are a Big Corp, and we were always much more diverse. Means that the agencies that we've built for the sectors and the demographics that we have, while we have all the established collectors, we also have a new diverse agencies and that's definitely becoming a huge competitive advantage for our public art projects and for the sales that we're making for the artists and for all the brand partnerships. So it has become a positive as we speak, because I think people are looking at this in a very different lens now.
Ludovic:
I see. You're surrounded by creativity, you're a creative person yourself, obviously. Does it help you to negotiate, to be creative? Would you have an example for instance? I am using the word negotiating, but it's also influencing people or trying to find a solution, does it help you to be creative and basically be in that environment?
Marine:
I mean, obviously I enormously believe in the value that visuals even further than creativity, visuals can bring to an individual. I think there is so much you learn visually that you don't even learn through words. It's such powerful communication. And they say that 82% of our communication is actually more visual than it is verbal. So I certainly believe in the power of visuals for sure. I think I'm someone that visualizes things, and that's the way I am as an entrepreneur. I visualize where I want to be and where I want the company to be, before I build an execution behind it. So I'm sure that the fact that I've always felt it was really easy to visualize something enormously helped me because I could just visualize things that were not there or situations that never existed or projects that never existed or a business world that never existed. I didn't find it challenging to invent something and to visualize, and to go and achieve it. I think it's -- you said more, more with the large funds like a Sequoia where they will have a designer and creative labs for all the companies they invest in to kind of learn from that. And I think people are definitely talking more at length on the power of the visualizations that I mentioned. Which I think is super powerful, because I can definitely get them, I can get a team or I can get investors on board by just visualizing something and my brain finds it quite easy to onboard people on that basis.
Ludovic:
Have you ever been in a deadlock situation in terms of negotiation? And then you use your creativity to solve that problem?
Marine:
Yes, it's funny, because I think maybe it's the thing of the world. But I see everything very organically and I see everything as..., yes, I don't see anything as an end, I don't see an end, I never see full stops. So I wouldn't recall a dead point because for me that will be more a place where I will be rethinking a new way to approach it than it is a dead point. And now with people, it's beyond negotiation. They're just that it's not the right timing for them and they're not in the right headspace. It's not quite the right moment to approach them for that matter. So I just move in terms of context, and in terms of the person and I think, can I get my negotiation now? And I think it's served me well, that the recent entrepreneur we have on boarded to lead our Paris office, Eunice, had just handled the governance of the company she just built before us, and I happened to be reaching out literally just after she had done that. And that's a very similar story to a lot of the top artists we signed, we happen to be reaching out also when they were reconsidering new ways to do things. Same with clients, same with investors as well. I think timing and context and knowledge of the person is so key. So it's less about forcing something that is, you know, right or wrong. It's more making sure it's right for the person at the time that you're suggesting it.
Ludovic:
Are there any books that you consider as key to your self-development? Do you have any favorite non-fiction books that have helped you to develop or you could recommend?
Marine:
I think the truth is that I'm very much literature and philosophy student more than I am a business student. So, the deepest reflections I had are much more from classics than they will be from a business book. And I would never pick up a book that says hard to do this, because my brain just doesn't function that way. The way I would think about ideas that are really interesting is usually because I'm reading something that has nothing to do with it. And then I'm seeing a character through whatever book I'm reading that is unveiling something philosophically or conceptually that I find really interesting. And then this is how I link it to something else I'm thinking about. So I don't think in terms of lists or in terms of how? I'm just trying to get to the bottom or the right ideas. And then by the second I'm convinced of the idea, I bring it back on board into what I'm building. So I think philosophy books and classics are much more the inference for that matter, because this is where the reflection is going in so much depth that you can really reach a really good quality of ideas and then kind of bring it back. I think Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged is definitely a book that for both my partner and I, he was also very into that book when I met him. I think just purely for the -- I mean, she emigrated from Russia in the 60s and then started writing in the States. And the fact that you have a very social understanding of the world meeting a very liberal understanding of the world, I think is a very interesting reflection for any entrepreneurs because in a way, you're trying to onboard people and do the right thing socially at the same time as having a very unique single vision. And also being a B Corp, I think that it's something that I care enormously about is how do you make sure that everyone is supported socially, but equally, you want to attain objectives that are very ambitious. I think that book, which is 1200 pages, I would recommend it by saying, of course, take a break as you read it, but was really influential, because she was very daring enough to be rethinking entirely the way people were doing things. And I think she was in that unique position in the 60s, where very few people have been so immersed into the communist thinking and then come out on the liberal side. Which made a really interesting reflection on that. And I think I'm showing from that to this, the B Corp thinking to some extent. After this, I'm a huge fan of South. And I have always followed the idea that actions define people. I've become much kinder on the edges of this and there's definitely a context that matters. I think South was quite harsh about not valuing sometimes the context people would have through their actions. But I do judge upon actions and I do make decisions upon a series of actions. And so I'm very much like a sad thinker. And I think another two ones that had a huge influence on the French side. Our Simone de Beauvoir and Gisèle Halimi for the drive that they had in very unwelcoming environments to change things, which I think it's also very inspiring to kind of see that in the same way the South was very harsh on the action, they're also very action driven, but they are deep thinkers who are very action driven, which was both really inspiring in terms of their profiles. I think that's the one that inspired my thinking. But yes, definitely do not know how to do books.
Ludovic:
Yes, more novel and philosophical books than nonfiction books that many people are reading to become a better entrepreneur or to become rich? That's very often what we see. What is your best memory as a negotiator? And is there a deal that you remember that will always stay in your mind or you are proud of or a deal you've learned a lesson from? Is this something that stick in your mind?
Marine:
So I have so many memories of deals that I'm really happy with. I think it's funny, I never think it's done to me as a negotiator, I just feel incredibly grateful that I was in the room when it comes to those deals, and that we were able to make it happen. And I think I'm super proud that our artist Sapp when we signed him, said within six months, I want to launch a public art project from the Eiffel tower with the Champ de Mars and the mayor of Paris. And then you have six months for the raising of the funds, the media partnership, and the implementation of it. And we did that and I mean, going back to South, I'm big on commitments, and I think if someone comments that I would never commit unless I feel I can deliver. And I was really stressed about that delivery because I wanted to sign him, I did believe he would become enormous, which she has since as an artist, but I was definitely anxious on the timing and the delivery side. So we were able to make all of this happen, which I was delighted about. I think the pandemic has been a great example of how the company is, I think really leading. We tripled revenue by just reinventing the value that art can bring, it was in the public art realm, was very good at collaborations, and we had people online. I mean, our community online was incredibly tight. And we were able to kind of generate that community experience. So again, I think we were negotiating in a time that was very difficult to obtain anything from it. And I feel incredibly lucky. I think it's not even a case of putting me forward on whether it was a good negotiation or not. I was seeing a lot of my competitors going bust and my company was thriving, which I will be forever incredibly grateful to be in that position. And I think the value add of the company and how I have seen people be very inspired by us in that period was also incredibly valuable. So I'm very proud of that in terms of that series of deals, because that's when we became the official suppliers of the Chrono’s say to Westminster, or lots of the big groups as well, in terms of the public art space. I think it's less deal making again, but we generally have the top people in my sector who do respect us. And I'm proud of that, and whether it's irrelevant, whether they like us or not, there's a deep respect that goes with how we would run as a company and the ambition that we have. And that's something that beyond negotiation, is something I really appreciate when going into a meeting that that respect is tangible, and with people who are incredibly impressive, and that I have deep respect for therefore. So it's always such a nice feeling that I would feel that respect. And I know that therefore, this will probably mean a lot of deals and will be happening from the back of that. But beyond the deal making, it's a really nice feeling because I do value all those brains and I do think they are incredible. So the fact that they value us, it means a lot to us as well. So I think no, it's more... I mean, I have so many happy memories, I think the answer is I'm very proud of what the team and the artists are doing. And last week, we were projecting a Marble Arch, which is a symbolic place in London. And it was absolutely magical to see crowds and crowds and crowds standing and looking at the arts of the artists. And then we flew to camp 26 which was for the project we had done with octopus and all our…Robert Montgomery and little son. So every day the deals that we've made happen, I think are incredibly valuable. I think, are incredibly difficult to make happen on all levels and yet we have seen it happen. So I'm at a stage in my life, I'm just really, really grateful for it.
Ludovic:
That's impressive what you've done. And I know the stress it can generate, especially when we talk about events and stuff. I know a bit about events. So I know that it can be very stressful, but it's amazing what you've achieved. Can you offer a piece of advice that will help entrepreneurs in negotiating of course, but also their business? Possibly women. What piece of advice could you give to the people who will be listening and are either entrepreneurs or want to be entrepreneurs?
Marine:
I think that what I'm very lucky for is, so when I built MTArt, I had the age which was 25, where you just do not compromise. You just put on a piece of paper, everything you would dream to see and then you hope for the best and strive for the best. But it's a very sweet age for that matter, because compromising at times when you're defining a vision can actually be something that can actually compromise your vision. They can reduce it, or they cannot make it as disruptive or as impactful as it could have been. And so I think it's not to say you have to start a business at 25, is to say that I have loved being a non-compromising founder to start with before I was a CEO and to be really true on all levels to what the vision was. Even if that meant it was really hard or not done or criticized. It was a very clear vision that I put on paper back then and that I stuck to. And so I think it's as hard as it is when you start therefore is to try and have this intensity but also this clear vision as much as you can and ignore the rest because in a way I listen to everyone right now because I'm a CEO so I have to listen to everyone to make the right decisions. But I'm so glad that I listen to nobody as a founder, because it meant that I designed something that nobody else did. But then of course, as you grow, then you have to listen, you have to almost change your personality to just make sure you hear everything and we really integrate it. So I think that phase of not listening to anyone was not only liberating, because it's a nice feeling. But it's also meant that the vision we have for the business has always been incredibly strong. And then we can be flexible on the execution but we have a strong sense of self, a sense of identity as a business, a company culture, employees colleagues and artists. And that is down to being 25 and therefore not wanting to do anything that anybody else had done or listened too much to what everyone was trying to advise. So less about the age more just maybe blockades but at the start, of course, do lessons long term. But if you have something that you're super passionate about, and you really would like to create or see, then it might be better that you just stick to exactly what that vision is at the very start. And then of course, by the second, you can see it's working out, do listen a lot, because that's where you need to grow it.
Ludovic:
I would imagine that you have that vision right, but you have to be sure that you're going in the right direction. . How did you check that you were still on the right track? Were you testing a lot of things to see they were working? And you said that you will not listen to anyone but were there still a few people that could have influence on you and you listened to their opinion?
Marine:
I think yes, I still have 6 years of experience in this sector. I came from the understanding of who clients were and what my sector was. So I'm not saying be super on the unknowledgeable and go. Well I think about that time I'd say I was put together. Yes, I did decide to not listen to anyone because of the way my sector is structured, most people would tell you the same thing because they're all based on those types of people. So in a way I just closed that down to just really be concentrating on, how do we create something that's very different in the sector and does really add value, and that was more a very existential or physically cool thinking tool that I really want to add value. I do think it was ever sure, I think it's a thing I said to my team, it's not an issue. I know but sure what's interesting is now. I'm 100% confident that we will become a large AC to the sector. When I started it, I wasn't confident but I had a lot of desire and hope and willingness to sacrifice a lot to see that happening. Whereas now, I have so much need to look after that I'm almost here because of personality. I need to make sure that we can preserve and build on top of it. So without the time, it's not an issue of people having influence or not, it's an issue that -- there was a concert that I felt was valuable to the sector that I really wanted to see exist. Whether or not I would share this was a nice business model which turned out that it was, it was irrelevant to my mind. I just felt the existence of that concept would generally be beneficial to the sector and I wanted that to happen. So I was not sure as an entrepreneur, I was a business entrepreneur but I was committed to making sure it would happen and I think that in a way, what I hear now from a lot of people who have backed me early is that they trusted that I would get it done for that matter. Because I wasn't interested in saying whether or not it will happen in three or four years’ time, whether the market was this or that. There was some degree of studying it but most importantly I was committed to doing it. And by that I really meant, I will be doing it. And I spun this a lot in my top talents, it doesn't matter how hard it is, there's just this commitment of just getting it done. And I think that's okay, therefore at that point to just not listen. There's no need to listen because the thing is you just have to be head down and just deliver it. And then you can listen, once you understand the delivery that you've generated. So, definitely we're all different. I think if they had seen me doing something terrible, or morally wrong, or anything, I'm sure they would have raised their voices. But in the context of it, I think they all let me do exactly how I want it so that I could understand and construct the vision that I had for it and they didn't step in, and my investor to this stage with majority shareholding with my employees and I. But my investors have always been the same. They always like to lead the vision. The numbers speak for themselves on a yearly basis but I've never had people who try to tell me what to do. And it's always been really nice because in a way, back to my advice, by really stating we want to do this on our own terms, we're actually attracting people who've got that and would let us lead on our own terms as well. So the business is doing really well, the numbers are showing it but I've never had an investor ever ringing me being like, I don't like this, I don't like that. I want you to change this. We're lucky to be in a community that really trusts us and we've therefore established our trust at the start of the company by saying we're going to do this that way and that's it. If you want to come on board, fantastic, if you don't then that's fine too. So I think it was not the case of being reckless, it was a case of we were very clear on what we wanted to achieve.
Ludovic:
This is very interesting. Actually, it is like the mindset of an artist. Basically, you don't tell an artist what to do. Basically, you leave the artist, have that vision and basically paint or just sculpture or whatever. And that's basically the mindset you had. That's what I understand, it means that you had a vision and you wanted to create something and then, you don't stop an artist, you let an artist express himself or herself and just come up with a nice piece of art right?
Marine:
Yes, and I think again form kind of being a lot in the VC world nowadays, I think most founders are like this and I think smart investors understand that. I think Saul or Frederic, they've both been incredible successful entrepreneurs themselves. So they understand when it's time to just let the person do it. And when it's time to actually... Because when I come to them for advice and obviously, they're delighted to reference me but they also understand when it's the right for me to step in or not and when it’s the time to just be behind and to let the person do it. Which I think is a very smart way of investing. And I understand as an investor now when I see founders I like, or companies I like, I just let the founder lead, unless the founder is specifically asking me for expertise I would have that would be helpful. I just tend to let people go. Because I think the right people will just, you know, even when they make mistakes, they will learn so much from them and they will reconstruct the vision around them as well. So if someone is strongly driven, I think it's best to let them do their thing until they need more support, if that makes sense.
Ludovic:
It makes sense. So I have some speedrun questions for you. Like we say in French a little "portrait chinois" if that's okay. You have to choose between two options. You have the right to elaborate on and explain why you choose that thing but I would like to ask you this question if you don't mind.
Modern Art or Classical Art?
Marine:
Both, I can't decide. They're so incredibly relevant to each other. They can't go without each other.
Ludovic:
Maybe you open your visions tomorrow, but if you had to choose...
Marine:
No, it's impossible. It's like if you were saying past, present, future. They run alongside each other.
Ludovic:
Fair enough. Another difficult question. Paris or London?
Marine:
London for me, totally. I think it's a very interesting time for Paris because there's definitely a growing market and more approaches happening. And this is why we've built an office there and a team there. But I'm more of a Londoner because until London changes. If London changes again then I'll be less Londoner. But London now as it stands is an incredibly dynamic international city where a lot of the top brands still are. Of course if that changes and if the top brands move to Paris, then I will move to Paris.
Ludovic:
I see. Difficult one, Island life or city life?
Marine:
City life for me. I mean, I've lived literally behind oxford street and my office is a few minutes walk from my house so I'm totally a city person and I love proximity, and I love access. I love the fact that I have access to everything, including an airport, if I want to escape. I have hundreds of accesses, every five minutes. And I think the issue I have with the country-side is the lack of access. It's beautiful, it's obviously resourceful and I'm from there but I love access. I love the fact that every day my life changes every five minutes on what's going to happen to it. But it doesn't matter because a city can provide me with new ways to look at it or solve it because there's so much access in a way that a place like the country-side will just never be able to solve it for me because it would restrict the ways I could respond to it.
Ludovic:
I'm asking this question just for people that listen. Because you come from an Island in France called Île de Ré in France
Marine:
It's beautiful.
Ludovic:
Yes, it's beautiful. Champagne or cocktail for art review?
Marine:
I mean, basically I definitely had a lot of both, I think is the answer. I'm definitely a Blanc de Blanc winner, champagne wise and also, one of the partners and one of my artists that I have been very lucky to be treated by them. I think that would be for a non-preview because I like the feeling of champagne for celebrating something but I love a cocktail when it comes to the story telling of a cocktail bar or iconic place. I think that it would be ashamed to go for champagne because you almost want the cocktail to represent that storytelling. But champagne is such a fun celebration drink and I love celebrating things so I feel that it's a better celebrating drink on that level.
Ludovic:
I see. Flats or heels?
Marine:
I cycle quite a bit so I think frankly flats make my life much easier. I've never lived in a very hilly place so I can't actually relate to one. I know that San Francisco was quite hilly and I must say I cannot cycle in that context so it probably frustrates me on a daily basis because in London, I just go to from point A to point B so quickly on a bicycle with that right the second it's hilly, I will have to commute or take the bus or the tube or the taxi which will probably mean it will be much harder as well.
Ludovic:
Very well because it rains a lot in London, you're not afraid of the rain? So you cycle under the rain?
Marine:
Yes I do but it's also a convenience, yes, everything is so convenient. It would literally just...it's a ten minutes... For me where I'm located, it's a ten minutes access to anything which changes the way you appreciate the city.
Ludovic:
Organized or Improvised?
Marine:
I think generally because I'm a single founder, if I had a partner, I would have had to pick. Having been a single founder to start with, I really had to be both. Because you have to be constantly spontaneous, improvising, creative, proactive. But equally, if you don't stick to all the commitments that you set for yourself, you just cannot run it. So I think you develop it. I'm very much 5050, I'm someone I can complete and has an inbox here, always had on a daily basis but equally someone that is very comfortable being spontaneous so redesigning the day, midway. I have no stress about it but I think you have to be both when you're not in a partnership with people and that was my case.
Ludovic:
I see. TV shows or movies?
Marine:
I don't actually watch any of it. I don't watch movies or TV shows. I probably watch a movie once every two years. I don't not even have a TV in my home. I love seeing people and I love music and I love reading, and I read a lot, a huge amount every day. But yes, I definitely don't watch anything.
Ludovic:
Interesting. If you were a masterpiece, what would it be?
Marine:
I think it was less if I was one and if I wanted to support one, I think then the one I adore and I love is the Gericault - The Wrath of the Medusa because it's an incredibly strong political piece as well. But I don't need to be it, I just would like the work to be looked after and to last because historically, it has so much importance. I don't need to be a masterpiece.
Ludovic:
Will you travel in the future or in the past?
Marine:
Past, because I want to acquire knowledge and I'm comfortable in creating the future. And I think there's so much joy as well in coming out with what's next. It’s a fun thing, you go through all the thrills of creating it. Past because I think it's such an interesting thing and a knowledgeable thing to go to understand how you got here in the first place. But I think I'm comfortable with the future. It will be a shame to kind of be revealed with the answer. It's like reading the end of the book as you just started it. It will be quite sad I think. So definitely not the future, I think.
Ludovic:
And I have a very serious one. Croissant or pain au chocolat?
Marine:
I think both as well. Yes, probably more croissant and then my son will have a very strong opinion of that and actually your daughter too so.
Ludovic:
Absolutely. Thank you very much, Marine for this interview and your insights. I wish you the best of luck and I hope to have the pleasure of meeting you either in France or in England one day.
Marine:
Yes, me too. And thank you for the creative questions, really appreciate it.
Ludovic:
My pleasure. All the best.
I hope you've enjoyed this interview, there are more coming with different CEO's, with different backgrounds, stories. Stay tuned, you can follow us on www.ludovic.online. See you soon.
