Intro:
Welcome to “CEO INSIGHTS”, a podcast on influence and negotiation in which CEOs (or ex-CEOs) of international companies come to share their approach and experience of negotiation and influence. I am your host Ludovic Tendron, I am a business and strategic partnerships developer, hospitality lawyer, expert negotiator, and the author of the Master Key: Unlock Your Influence and Succeed in Negotiation
I have the pleasure to welcome today Bill Yeargin, a true authority in the boating business. Bill is the CEO of Correct Craft, the oldest family-owned and operated boat manufacturer in the world (close to 100-year old), distributing in 70 different countries. Bill served both the Obama and Trump administrations on cabinet-level advisory councils. He is also the author of 5 books, including the best-seller Education of a CEO.
Ludovic 0:05
Hi, Bill. It’s a great honor to have you with us for this fifth episode of CEO insight. Thank you for accepting this invitation from Orlando, I think.
Bill 0:15
Yes, from Orlando, Ludo. And thank you very much. Very happy to be here with you and appreciate the invitation. Honored to be on your podcast.
Ludovic 0:25
I will go straight to the first question. I've just read your book; Education Of a CEO. I really liked it. Great insights. How did you come up with the idea of writing that book?
Bill 0:37
When I came to Correct Craft 15 years ago, the company was in a bit of a rough time. I was the fifth CEO, Ludo, in five years. So it was going through a lot of change, and went through a lot of transition with that. And just about the time we got on our feet, ran into the Great Recession, and we lost 90% of our business overnight. So we went through a lot of challenges, get on our feet, lost 90% of our business. And then we started a period of great expansion. Our company's grown 20 times in the last 15 years. Lots of acquisitions and organic growth. And so just learned a lot of lessons. And during those lessons, I just started to share them and just to help other people. And we love making life better, we call it here at Correct Craft. So I thought, “Well, maybe it helps some other people to be able to learn some of the lessons that we've learned here.”
Ludovic 1:29
Great. Would you say it's more difficult to be a CEO now than 30 years ago?
Bill 1:35
It's hard to say because I wasn't a CEO 30 years ago. But if I had to guess, I would say yes because the change is happening so much faster now, Ludo, than it has in the past. And particularly, with technology. I believe that there's a lot of businesses that are in business today that won't be here 10 years from now because there's so much technology change that's impacting business models and how we do business. And so I would say yes, mainly because of the rate of change.
Ludovic 2:06
I read the other day that 65% of the jobs in the world today will disappear by the time primary school children will join the workforce…
Bill 2:19
Yeah. I totally believe that. And so they said, “Computational change is happening.” The computational growth in power is growing so fast, It's advancing technologies that are converging and changing business models. So when you get that progression, you just have a lot of change. I totally believe that. Now, I'm not a pessimist, I'm an optimist. I think it's going to create a lot of wealth, it's going to create a lot of opportunity, it will just be different than it is today. So it's not going to be; 65% jobs are eliminated and there's nothing else for them, it’s just going to be different kinds of jobs than what we were used to today.
Ludovic 2:57
It must be difficult to take a decision as a CEO now when you think about it, because there's so many factors and parameters to take into consideration I would imagine.
Bill 3:06
Yeah, it is. But we're always trying to look out 10, 15 years. I tell our team the best thing we can do for our company and for our employees is have a business model that we know our company's going to be here and be successful 25 years from now. So we're trying to look out way past this quarter, this year, Ludo. We're trying to look out 10, 15, 20, 25 years. Trying to make the decisions we need to make today to be successful, not just for next quarter, but for 20 years from now.
Ludovic 3:34
Do the best negotiators make the best CEOs?
Bill 3:38
That's an interesting question. I think being a good negotiator is certainly part of being a good CEO. But there's a lot of other parts too that are important. So I think you can be a really good negotiator, but not do a very good job at energizing your team or creating a vision or creating clarity around what's important. So you can be a good… You can be a great negotiator, but not have some other CEO skills. I think you could probably have those other CEO skills, and have somebody that works for you that's a good negotiator. So I don't think that… It’s certainly not a requirement but it helps. It helps.
Ludovic 4:18
It helps. I would imagine if you don't know how to negotiate, it could be difficult as a CEO.
Bill 4:23
Yeah, probably didn't get into the role to start with.
Ludovic 4:27
Probably. So in your opinion, what are the hidden qualities that make the best CEO compelling?
Bill 4:34
Yeah. I think as a CEO, I see my job as to create a lot of clarity. I have to create clarity around our mission, our vision, our ‘why.’ From Simon Sinek's book; Start With Why.’ Have to create clarity around our values. What our strategic plan is. And then if I can create a lot of clarity around those items, Ludo, and then I can create or help the team generate energy. And so inspire. So creating a lot of clarity and then inspiring. I think if I can do those two things, I can be a good CEO. And I think those are really the key things for a CEO; create clarity around what's important, and create energy around those items, and you can accomplish almost anything.
Ludovic 5:19
Great. So you start the education of a CEO by honestly admitting that you were not meant to be a CEO. That you would tend to be impatient, get emotionally hijacked, and easily fooled. How did you manage to keep this tendency at bay to succeed at Correct Craft?
Bill 5:39
That's another great question right out of the book. I aspire to be a consultant. And I had spent a lot of time traveling all over the world, including visiting Vietnam where you are and speaking at conferences. So I was going to try to leverage that into being a consultant. And about the time I was trying to do that, I was approached by Correct Craft to become CEO of the company, and I actually turned them down the first time they offered it. And so the second time, through a chain of circumstances I decided this is what I was supposed to do. But I think some of those things that I identify as weaknesses, I think they’re weaknesses of everybody. I can be insecure. I can be easily fooled. I can be subject to confirmation bias, in other words, I'm not looking for truth, I'm looking to validate what I already believe. And so I think the first step is having an awareness of those things, and realizing that, “Hey, these could be traps. And if I'm not aware of them, then it's much easier to fall into the trap.” I've got a really high awareness of where the traps are, I think. And I'm not saying that in a prideful way, I think just through experience and learning, I know where the traps are. There’s a great book by a guy named Tim Irwin, Ludo, called “Derailed.” And he talks about rockstar CEOs, and what gets them off track and how they lose their way. And it always comes back to pride. Every single time, it comes back to pride. So when we start thinking, “We know it all,” or, “We've got it all figured out,” or, “We don't need other people,” that's a really dangerous place to be because we do. We need people. Another great book -- I could talk about books all day -- by Henry Cloud called “The Power of the Other.” And he talks about how we need other people to help us accomplish what we want to accomplish. So when we start thinking, “It's all about us,” the sirens ought to be going off, the red flags because that's a trap.
Ludovic 7:44
Yeah, I completely agree with you. How do you make people receptive to your ideas?
Bill 7:50
At the end of the day, most people are going to do what's good for them. And so, part of my job is to help them understand that they're important, and that they're valued, that I appreciate them, that the organization appreciates them. And also help them understand that they're part of a bigger mission than just building boats or engines. We want to build great boats, we want to build great engines, run great Water Parks, all the things that our company does but we also want to use our platform for good, and that's why we take employees all over the world. I take employees to Cambodia and not far from you India, several countries in Africa, Central America, and we serve. And we just find an orphanage or a poor community, and we’ll go and serve. So, I want them to know that, “Hey, we want to use our resources. And when we do good as a company, it's not just give people money, even though there's not a matter of that and we want to reward people. It's about using our platform for good.” And people love that, they're inspired by that.
Ludovic 8:57
Great. Yeah. I sense that you are involved in a number of charities. That's great. So you've been an extensive traveler. I understand that you've just released a new book, “Education of a Traveler,” if I'm not wrong. Which culture do you like doing business with and why?
Bill 9:17
Yeah. The Educational of a Traveler, my latest book, was resulted from being… Visiting about 117 countries. Turns out how you count them, somewhere between 110, 117 countries. And much of that was on business or speaking. And what I enjoy is the more different than what I live on a day-to-day basis here in Florida, the better, in terms of what I enjoy. In terms of cultures where I like doing business, sometimes people are surprised to hear I really enjoy doing business in the Middle East. I think there's a lot of opportunity there throughout the Middle East. There's people that can afford boats in pretty much every country, even the poorest countries. And when you go in as a CEO… When I've traveled as CEO, as a country, there's a lot of people there that want to talk to you about your product. And a lot of people want us to build boats there, we don't do that. We’ve got several facilities, but they're all here in the United States right now. But someday, who knows, maybe we will do that, too. But I enjoy pretty much all countries.
Ludovic 10:23
Is this an American way of negotiating, you think? Very often we say that America is a winning culture, and therefore… You see it in language as well. There’s a lot of sport and war expressions. Do you think that Americans have that approach where they want to win when they do business and negotiate?
Bill 10:47
We want to win, but we also -- very much, very important to us -- we want the other side to win too. We want to come up with a… We want to negotiate something that's good for everybody. And I can't say that every American company wants to do that, but I can say for sure that we do. We won't do a deal, we won't do an acquisition if it's not good for the other party. We just won't do it because we don't have to. We're a big company, we’re in 70 countries around the world. And, yeah, that's just not who we want to be, Ludo. But there's plenty of opportunities to structure deals so that both sides can be a winner. And so that's what we want to do. And so, yeah. Of course, we want to win but we want the other side to win too. For us to win, they don't have to lose, they can win too.
Ludovic 11:38
Yeah, that makes sense. Do you trust your gut feelings in business?
Bill 11:44
I trust my gut feelings. But I also realize that it’s just my feelings and there's other perspectives. And sometimes, Ludo…. I don't know how this will… You know what a beach ball is, when you’re at the beach, you blow it over there. It's got all kinds of different colors. And so sometimes I’ll hold up a beach ball, I've got one, if I thought of it, I’ll have had it here in my desk for this interview. And I'll say, if I'm on the blue panel on the beach ball, I see things blue, and my gut tells me things are blue. But if you're on the yellow panel, Ludo, and you see things yellow, I may think, “How does he even see that? What what is he talking about?” So I trust my gut, I trust my feelings. But I also know I've got to step back and make sure I get input from a lot of people. Because there’s a lot of evidence that we have the ability to think something is very true when it's actually very wrong.
Ludovic 12:46
Yeah. When I was writing my book, I came across some research and they were saying that because of the time pressure, because of the modern world we live in, deadlines, etc, people have a tendency to trust their gut feeling a little bit more during negotiation, and be a bit less rational, probably. I don't know if that’s something you share?
Bill 13:11
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. There is a place for trusting your intuition and your gut. And if you've done a really good job of being a learner, and you've got good experience, there's times you can do that. But there's always another perspective. And so I just want to try to make sure I'm seeing all sides of the situation. And not just the perspective that I see it. And I think that makes me a better leader, I think it makes me a better negotiator too.
Ludovic 13:40
Do you have any daily routines that keep you grounded and balanced every day?
Bill 13:45
I love to exercise and, it makes me mentally feel stronger emotionally, physically. And so I try to exercise pretty much every day. I don't get to do it every day. And people say to me, they say, “Bill, you're so busy, how do you find an hour to exercise?” But, Ludo, I feel like for every hour I exercise, I get three or four hours back. I feel like it's an investment, not an expense. And so when I exercise, I always feel like I get that time back in spades because I just feel I've got so much more energy and mental clarity and so forth when I’m exercising.
Ludovic 14:26
What kind of exercise do you like doing?
Bill 14:31
Recently I go to the gym and lift weights. I do bike riding. I've been running but I pulled a muscle, so the last few weeks I haven't been on the run. So that's not a good advertisement for exercising I guess, but with my muscle pull, I can ride a bike. So I've been riding. Last night I rode 12 miles. I just go out and ride 12 miles just to get a little exercise in. So I just feel a lot better when I do that. I feel like it makes me a better person, leader, and negotiator.
Ludovic 15:03
I read in your book that you meditate as well, do you do that always.
Bill 15:06
Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's strange. I always thought it was a little silly, Ludo. And I started reading a little bit more about it, and I realized a lot of people attribute part of their success to meditating and I do that also. It just gives me an opportunity really just to clear my mind. And we can be so busy and have so much going on. It's a reset. It's like hitting a reset button, Ludo. And so it's very, very helpful to me.
Ludovic 15:35
Yeah, I completely agree, especially in the morning. When you wake up and you… You don't control your dreams, obviously. So sometimes you wake up, you're weird. And you have to start your day on the right foot. So it's actually great to do meditation in the morning. I like it. I like doing it in cold water, as well, which is quite interesting.
Bill 15:56
Really, I've never tried that. I'll have to try that. Thank you for the tip. I'm a Florida guy, so I don't like cold water too much. So that would be quite an experience for me. (Laughs)
Ludovic 16:05
You’re going to be laser-focused when you meditate in cold water, you should try.
Bill 16:10
Yeah, I’ll bet. I’ll bet.
Ludovic 16:13
So my last question to you would be what is your funniest memory as a negotiator?
Bill 16:19
As a negotiator?
Ludovic 16:20
Yeah.
Bill 16:21
This isn't real negotiation, so hopefully, this will work for you. But I took a negotiation class at Harvard University. And six months, six days there. And one of the things that I learned there… Because we had negotiations with other classmates. And you become the best negotiator when you're willing to walk away, and when you don't have to do the deal. And so when you get emotionally hijacked by the deal, or captured, then you're a really poor negotiator. But if you're willing to walk away… And I've used this many, many times, not as really negotiating tool, but just because I was… As I said, we're a big company, we don't really have to do any deal. So if it's not good for us, it's not good for the other person. We're willing to walk away. And that really helps in negotiation because people realize if they want to do the deal, they need to take into consideration our concerns whatever they might be.
Ludovic 17:34
And maybe you wanted to tell something funny about it? (Laughs)
Bill 17:41
(Laughs) Well, the funny part was that when I took the Harvard Negotiation class, basically we're scored… In the class, you come back in and you tell what you negotiated, and then you'd be scored. And so the worst thing that could happen, the worst score you would get is if you couldn't do a deal. So when my other classmates realized that I was willing to get the worst score, I was willing to do that, I was willing not to do a deal, then basically, they would give me whatever I wanted. So that's not real life negotiation, but it was a real… If you ever take a negotiation class at Harvard, that's the trick. Just be willing to walk away and then people just give you whatever you want.
Ludovic 18:25
Great tip. I love it. I will have some speed round questions for you. Now, you have to answer very quickly; yes or no.
Bill 18:34
Okay. Oh, boy. Just made me nervous Ludo. (Laughs)
Ludovic 18:38
You have two options. So are you a early bird or a night owl?
Bill 18;44
Early Bird?
Ludovic 18:45
Would you have dinner with Donald Trump or Barack Obama?
Bill 18:51
(Laughs) I've met them both in the White House, and it was an honor to meet both of them. So I would have dinner with either one of them.
Ludovic 18:58
Okay. If you were a hashtag what would it be?
Bill 19:03
Hashtag learner.
Ludovic 19:06
Nice. What's your favorite food?
Bill 19:09
Favorite food. Oh, it would be some type of ethnic food. Probably the best food I've ever had is in the Middle East. So I love middle eastern food. Mexican, Italian. Definitely any kind of ethnic food. Would be ethnic food to me here in the United States.
Ludovic 19:25
Right. What is the best age?
Bill 19:29
Age. I think every age. Every step along the way, I've thought was the best and I think this is where I am right. I just had my first grandbaby and my daughter had a little girl; Rosie, and I adore her. And I just can't imagine life being any better than it is right now with her. So I've enjoyed every step at every age.
Ludovic 19:52
You don't think that you wish you could be younger or in your 40s or 30s sometimes?
Bill 19:59
(Laughs) I'm very content. I am very happy where I am. I know I've got more life behind me than I have ahead of me. But I'm just… I enjoyed my 30s and 40s and I enjoy where I am today. Now, I do wish in my 30s I’d have known what I know today, that would have been really helpful. (Laughs) And I'm sure 10 years from now, I’ll look back and say, “10 years ago, I wish I had known what I knew today.” So I just want to be a learner and keep learning.
Ludovic 20:27
Great. Godfather of Star Wars?
Bill 20:32
I'm sorry?
Ludovic 20:33
The Godfather or Star Wars?
Bill 20:35
Star Wars.
Ludovic 20:38
Wine or whiskey.
Bill 20:41
(Laughs) I don't drink so… I don't drink any alcohol. So neither one for me.
Ludovic 20:48
You have a motto?
Bill 20:49
A what?
Ludovic 20:51
A motto. Like a short sentence that you like…
Bill 20:56
Oh. Be a learner. A motto. Okay, I'm sorry. Be a learner.
Ludovic 20:59
Sorry, excuse my French. My pronunciation… (Laughs)
Bill 21:03
No no. (Laughs) Be a learner. I have people ask me all the time for advice and I would say, “Just be a learner, just keep learning and reading.” I read dozens of books a year. And I love having my mind changed. I love seeing things differently. And don't get stuck just trying to validate what you already think, be open to learning. And so ‘be a learner’ would definitely be my motto.
Ludovic 21:29
Keep a growth mindset.
Bill 21:31
Yeah, yeah.
Ludovic 21:34
Do you have a bucket list?
Bill 21:37
I mentioned the Education Of a Traveler book. Having been to 117 countries, you've sort of been pretty much everywhere. The three places I'd like to go, though, is I've not been to Antarctica, so I’d like to go to Antarctica. I've been to Africa many times, but I've never been to Victoria Falls. So I'd like to go to Victoria Falls. And the third place -- and people find this interesting -- is I’d like to go to Ulaanbaatar, Mongolia. And I've spent a lot of time in Asia, I've never been to Mongolia. And my daughter spent a summer there and told me about her experiences there. So I'd like to go there. So on one of my Asia trips, I'm going to do a little side trip to Ulaanbaatar and that'll probably be the easiest one. Victoria Falls, I can probably do that on a future Africa trip. Antarctica would be a tougher one, but I plan to do that at some point.
Ludovic 22:31
Great. For your spare time, do you prefer social time or alone time?
Bill 22:36
Social time. I'm an extrovert, I'm a pretty high extrovert, Ludo.
Ludovic 22:40
Okay. You learn by watching or learn by doing?
Bill 22:47
I'd say doing. I’d say both but if I had to pick one, I'd say doing.
Ludovic 22:53
What is the best advice you've ever received?
Bill 22:59
My grandfather used to tell me, “Just because you have the money, you don't have to buy it.” And he’d also say, “Be a saver.” And so, that's worked well for me. My dad used to encourage me to have high integrity, so that's worked well for me. But, probably my grandfather and my dad, and those items would be the best advice.
Ludovic 23:34
That's great. What is the lesson that took you a long time to learn?
Bill 23:39
Oh, boy. There's so many. I feel there's some I haven't even learned yet now. But I think just the idea that I know that I'm not always right. And I think it sometimes comes with maturity and age to know and really value contrary opinions because there's always truth in them. And I said earlier, we can feel very right but actually very wrong. And so, not just trust those feelings of being right. And knowing that, “I could feel right and be wrong at the same time.”
Ludovic 24:24
Right. And my last question, what trait most defines who you are?
Bill 24:31
A learner.
Ludovic 24:31
Learner. It’s in your book
Bill 24:33
It’ll be a learner. Yeah.
Ludovic 24:36
Right. Thank you so much, Bill. It was awesome to have you with us. And thank you for your insights. I hope to see you one day and meet you in person. And I wish you the very best and the very best to Correct Craft as well.
Bill 24:50
Thank you, Ludo. It's been a real pleasure and honor to be with you and hope to meet you too someday.
Ludovic 24:56
Thank you.
