NOTES:
Ludovic:
Hi, Greg, it's a real honor to have you with us for this third episode of CEO insights. Thank you for accepting this invitation from San Antonio. I'll go straight to the first question. You've had a tremendous career, made of great negotiations of all sorts. You obviously have to be a good negotiator to be a good leader. How did you build yourself as a negotiator? Was it on the job like most people, from books, were you mentored?
Greg:
First of all, Ludo, nice to be able to talk to you and share some different perspectives and backgrounds. First of all, I just would tell you about my career that I actually feel fortunate for the opportunities that I've had. When I look back on the different opportunities, I'm grateful that I got to do, meet the people, go to the places and do the things that I was able to do. So when I look back at around negotiating, I think there are three things that stand out to me. I think the first thing is, most of what I learned was from experiences. I think, as my career developed and progressed, they became more complex in some cases. So when you look back at the things that you did, the first way I learned was just from pure experience. The second way was also just from observing people, so also from an experiential standpoint, but probably more importantly, sometimes not being directly involved, and watching how both parties conducted the negotiation. And I think finally, which I think is always very, very successful is to go back and particularly on maybe critical or difficult negotiations, and to reflect back on it and learn what did you do well? What didn't go so well, and then why? And just try to learn from that for the future. To me, that's probably, as I look back on different types of negotiations that I've been involved in. That's probably what I would tribute both what I've learned and the approach that I've used, in many cases.
Ludovic:
You were talking about self-awareness, basically, at the end...
Greg:
Yes, absolutely.
Ludovic:
And you said that you were observing. Is this someone that you kind of admired, or someone who has been a great inspiration for you, and your career eventually?
Greg:
Probably just the opposite. It's probably and maybe it's just how I am personally. It seems like I've learned more by observing things that actually didn't go that well, and what not to do versus what to do. And so it wasn't as much having someone that I thought did outstanding jobs. I mean, you can pick up little tidbits of something to do in a negotiation from all sources. But I think for me, personally, I probably learned a lot from what not to do, from observing not as much what I did to do that had a bigger impact. Small things I learned by what people did, and maybe the cumulative value of all those small things was very, very impactful to me. But I think sometimes it was a fundamental flaw or mistake that someone made that I learned a lot from.
Ludovic:
That's great. So do you think that when you deal with people in the oil and gas sector, you deal with these people differently than in another sector? Meaning that you need specific skills to negotiate in that sector? Is it a tough sector? Is it different from any industrial sector, you negotiate differently?
Greg:
I think from my own experience in oil and gas and just really the whole energy space, you probably need to break the negotiations in the two different types of negotiations. Some which I'd call maybe more basic, routine discovery negotiations, or probably and all types of business maybe everywhere in the world you get involved in. I think there are more complex things that you can do in the energy business are probably maybe a little bit different because the impact is far greater. So it could have an impact in a country for example, so in the geopolitics and just more complexity. I think primarily just because of energy, and the importance of energy. Well, and this isn't on all negotiations, but I think if you're in the energy business, you're in a country or you're going into a new country, there's just a lot of complexity with what you're trying to do because of the impact that it has. It can be the impact on the environment, the political aspects of it, the impact on the people and how you bring people in from the country to be part of the business. And therefore, those what I would call maybe more complex negotiations in the energy space, absolutely require a very, very different approach.
Ludovic:
Would you say that it's obviously a political sector, I would imagine that you have also the pressure of government, including maybe your own government sometime to close some deals, or negotiate a certain way. Is that right?
Greg:
Yeah, I think in some cases, depending on what you're trying to do, it can impact both the host government and you know, myself being an American -- the American government. And we can maybe talk about that in a few questions, hear about some other things but there definitely is political implications to in the energy space just because of the critical nature of energy to everyone everywhere, in all parts of their life.
Ludovic:
And I would imagine some time, it can make political sense, but no business sense at all.
It can happen, I would imagine.
Greg:
Yeah, that's the unfortunate part. It can be, probably you can think this makes really good business sense. It makes good economic sense. It creates a lot of value for everyone, but then there may be may be some ideological aspects of it can get in the way and make it not turn out the way you would like it to turn out.
Ludovic:
As I mentioned earlier, you've made a great number of deals in your career with commercial partners, even unions, foreign governments, to name a few. Is there some memorable negotiations from which you've learned a great lesson?
Greg:
Absolutely, probably when I look back at the different things that I've been involved in, probably the thing that I learned the most from that was maybe one of the most challenging and difficult things. And it also didn't succeed is…I was involved a number of years ago, our company was a major investor in Venezuela. And the Venezuelan Government nationalized the assets of the company and the company was a -- this is a multi-billion dollar investment. And then you could see things kind of brewing along the way that it was going to, things were kind of going to hit a point where things weren't going to work out that well, but and then one day, the government of Venezuela nationalized the assets of not just a company that I work for, but a lot of other companies. And at that time, because it was such a critical part of the business of the company, the CEO of the company tried to negotiate a settlement with the government, and it wasn't successful. And then because I had done business in Venezuela, and I knew a lot of the people in the country and he asked me to try to find a resolution to this. And so I, in the message, I would probably say about this particular negotiation, that was the most, the thing that I found most interesting is when you when you think about it. So the CEO of the company, has been trying to negotiate a settlement with the country, where the assets of the company, many billions of dollars have been expropriated. And then when that doesn't work, he asked you to go in. And so they're already used to dealing with the top person in the company. And so the thing that I did and was to be successful at the time, I felt like I almost needed to recalibrate everything, because he was no longer the front person. He'd asked me to do that. So I had to make sure they were comfortable dealing with me, first of all. Because it's easy to say, well, I can just go to the top person in the company if I need to, and that's not what we wanted to be able to do. We wanted to be able to try to do that. So, I think we did three things that really helped make a difference. So the first thing is, we created a framework for the negotiations. And that was in an effort to recalibrate, to get new players involved and maybe to get a little bit of a different focus on the path that we wanted to do. So actually, the first step was to create a framework to have negotiations, and have in this case, the Venezuelan Government agree to that framework. Because that way, I felt you could recalibrate the negotiations. And that actually worked really, really well. In a way, the reason it works so well is we kept it very simple. And it had, what I always believe is important in negotiations is principles. And it had a number of principles. And I don't recall exactly today, how many principles, but it was probably somewhere like six or eight principles. So it wasn't like a long list of all these things that were things that were at least that we believe were very, very important. And we wanted to get the Venezuelans to believe that they were also important to them. And so the first step was creating this framework which worked out, actually worked out really, really well. The second thing, which I think was a kind of a tipping point, in being able to have the negotiations, because of the background, like I mentioned earlier was to almost trade positions, because there was a lot of information that both parties knew. I mean, we knew a lot about the business and all of the operating parameters and market conditions and things like that. So to understand each other's position, what we did at the time was, we said, let's get here, here's all of our information, all of our data, all of our facts, full transparency, now you can evaluate what that business is worth to us based upon everything we've given you. And you give us all of your information. And so instead of me going in and saying here's my position, I now can understand their position, and they can understand mine. And then you can try to bring it all together. And I believe that was kind of a, because of the circumstances, a unique way to approach that particular negotiation. And then the final thing was to then take all of that, because now you had a better understanding of their position, your position, their facts, your facts, and then you could try to find that point that worked out for both parties. And so from if you looked at the economics and other factors that were a part of the negotiations, in this case, getting the valuations of the business, you were in a lot better place to do that. Unfortunately, like you we mentioned briefly, then you got into the politics. So even though you felt like you could go through a lot of the maybe the different factors that were important in the negotiation, and you could progress those well, because you had maybe some shared understandings in that. But the thing you didn't have a shared understanding on was the politics. And since because for most of the time, it stayed off of the table. But when it came in to the negotiations, it made it incredibly difficult. So just I think upon reflection, I personally, it's almost getting back to the very first question when you go back and you think about how both parties conducted themselves and having principles to negotiate, having a framework to have these discussions. And I think it's one of those things where you say, wow, that that's kind of an incredible approach and it worked really well. Unfortunately, you never got resolution. And reason was is the politics, particularly between the government of Venezuela, and the United States at that time made it very, very difficult and probably even still today. But that, to me was one of the most impactful where I learned the most, also where I'm the most proud of myself and the people that worked with me to think our way through that because of the background of how we got there, as I described it.
Ludovic:
I imagine you had to go to Venezuela as well. So how do you go to Venezuela to negotiate such an important deal? You must feel the pressure, I would imagine they are military outside... I mean, how do you cope with your emotions and basically keep a cool head in such an environment? It must have been difficult, right?
Greg:
Yeah, I spend a lot of time in Venezuela doing business in Venezuela. And I really love the people of Venezuela, their country and their people and what they were trying to do. It changed over time, maybe not for the best in some cases, but it changed over time. But going there, it was an exciting place and in general, the people that I had been friends with, and business partners for a long time, I found to be just great people. And so although you had to be concerned about your own personal safety and that on one hand, on the other hand, you were working with people that in a way you enjoyed being around those people as individuals, they were very, very, very good people. They just happen to live in a country that maybe operated differently than our company and myself personally viewed how things should be.
Ludovic:
I understand, that's a great story. You've experienced a great number of cultures. Is this a way of negotiating that is distinctively American, according to you. I know that America is a winning culture, for instance, but do you think that you negotiate differently when you're American and you come from that culture?
Greg:
It's a great question Ludo. And I think even with your own personal background, living in different and travelling in different parts of the world, I think that first thing absolutely starts with awareness. You have to look around you and understand but more importantly appreciate the cultures of wherever you are in the world. I mean, you need to do that. And I think maybe one of the disadvantages of Americans from my own experiences, sometimes, I'm not sure they do that very well. I think that they see their culture, and maybe want to impose their culture on other parts of the world. And that's not how it should be. I mean, you need to understand the people and what's important to them. And so when you get into negotiations, as you probably are very, very aware, there are parts of the world where their culture is very consensus based. And you used the word for Americans winning, and maybe that is a dominant part of an American is to win, to make things happen. You know, get out there and make things happen and that doesn't mean other cultures don't want to do that, it's just how they get to that point can be dramatically different. And so I think it's very, very important to be very aware of where people come from, I think. Like, in any discussion or negotiation, you need to at least understand and appreciate other people's background, because you can't impose your will, your negotiating style on someone else. You won't be successful. So that awareness is very, very critical. And there are probably a lot of things that are similar. You know, through around the world, there may be some things that are similar, but there are lots of differences. And so you have to understand those differences. And also, understanding is one thing, but I think it's also important to appreciate why they're different. And then work with people to try to find good places that work for everyone. It's a very important thing. I think that cultural awareness when you go around the world and I know we're talking a lot about negotiating. And in negotiations, I think that that's very, very important. And even to be honest with you, in parts of the United States, you can go to one region of the United States. I would say, just as an example, if you're in Texas, and you're negotiating in California, there are cultural differences between just those two states, they may not be major differences but they're probably subtle enough differences. Because of those in the two areas that you have to be aware of those differences because it impacts the thinking and what's important to each party.
Ludovic:
And we live also in a world, which is more and more regulated. Notice, and I know that compliance is also something important in the US. It's probably part of something, probably not part of the culture. But if you negotiate and you're American, I think there's a lot of compliance also involved. And would you say that it takes people time sometime to get all these things checked, and also the approval of the lawyers and the contracts can be lengthy and stuff. Do you think that's also the case for the US, more than in other countries?
Greg:
I think, Ludo, I think the there's no question that US has a legal system that creates a tremendous framework, which I think is very, very valuable, actually. Because it requires much more transparency, and so that legal system is at least in the United States, critical part because if you violate it, the penalties are significant. And in other parts of the world, the good thing is, most parts of the world are aware, if you be in American, they're aware of the system. And if by following that system, it just has you more grounded in principles that you should just honor those principles in the negotiation. And maybe in developing countries or other parts of the world where their legal system maybe isn't as advanced or progressed the same way. You just have to be aware of that and be careful because the people have a different understanding of what you can, and you can do. So just that part of it, I think the legal system to me is one of the good benefits of the Western world, not just the United States, because other parts of Europe have those have systems like that also. But I think to do things around the world, advancement and development of legal systems around the world will help in doing business for everyone. It's like my example that you asked earlier about one of the most kind of either difficult or memorable negotiations. It was in a country that legal system probably was at the time when I was involved in that, turned upside down because of the type of government and you can see what's happened and how difficult it is for other countries to do business when you don't have certain conditions. The legal system can help protect everyone really.
Ludovic:
Fair enough. You're still priced for your great work at Tesoro, you were named one of the world's best CEOs by the Havard Business Review in 2018, sorry. What do you attribute this personal success to?
Greg:
Yeah, so the company was in the energy business, it was a refining marketing logistics company. Just in US, mainly a US company from an operating standpoint, we bought and sold crude oil and gasoline diesel that around the world, but it was from an operating standpoint, was a US company. And at the time, when I took over the company, as the CEO, there was just a lot of work to do to kind of turn the company around and in a relatively short period of time, we had great success doing it. And I would attribute that to three things. One, we had a very clear kind of vision of where we wanted to take the company, and was able to develop a strategy that people understood and was incredibly impactful. The second thing, we created a culture where we had a lot of good people, we brought in a lot of great people into the company, and people were excited about where the company was going. And more importantly, it was incredibly challenging. I fundamentally believe that most people probably everywhere in the world, actually, one thing that they have in common is people like to be challenged. And to be challenged, there's degrees of challenge for all of us. Some people maybe don't like a lot of challenge, and some people like to be pushed to the brink of failure. But if you can create an environment that's challenging and people are free, they have the space to go and make things happen, make good things happen and work together, then I think people can accomplish great things. By being able to do that you have to believe in the people and what they can do. And you can create -- if they know where they're going, and you have a place where everyone works, that allows them to rise to the occasion, then I think you can accomplish a lot of good things. And then you just have to be ambitious, your company and the people in that company, they want to go back what you said earlier about Americans - they want to win. I think that's really, really important. In this particular case or not, what they're beating I guess, is maybe the competition in a way but they want to win, they want to be successful. And if you were to help them be successful, then you can have a great outcome. I think that's just maybe, at least from my own experience, that's definitely the way America is. I think people have such a strong will to win that harnessing that wheel to win and do great things and be focused on what's important will take the business a long ways.
Ludovic:
You also think that luck can be provoked. I mean, luck is always part of a success in a way. Do you think that it can be provoked? And it's a question of mindset and an attitude and challenge, and this kind of thing?
Greg:
Well, we live in a very dynamic world and in that dynamic world, things are changing all the time. And there can be good things like say, if you're in a particular industry, that industry may have some good tailwinds that take the industry there. And so you can call that luck. You happen to be part of that industry, when things were going well, for whatever reason that factors that drive success in that business. And so I don't provoke, I would say that, by being out in that business, and in finding opportunities and dealing with the challenges, sometimes you're going to be lucky. So, I think it's nice when you're lucky. It's also nice to know when you're lucky and take advantage of it. You know, don't do good things to be able to get there. And there's no question we probably all need some of that. And we all need to be humble enough to recognize that. It was sometimes luck that got us to where we were and not just thinking that the company or you as a leader did everything and nothing else mattered. That's probably not the case. But so I think just the dynamic nature of the world that we live in, will provide some ups and downs. And when you find those ups, you can call them luck, but just make the most of them.
Ludovic:
Fair enough. How do you prepare yourself for important negotiations? Do you do anything? Do you have any ritual, you have... We're talking about that important negotiation in Venezuela. I mean, you were talking about self-awareness, do you prepare for this negotiation a certain way?
Greg:
Yeah. I believe that in negotiating, whatever you're trying to negotiate or just doing things, I think there are certain things that are really valuable, that help you have a better chance for being successful. For example, I think, first of all, you have to have strong values, whether it be integrity, you need to respect people like we've talked a little bit in some of the prior questions about the culture, you need that awareness. I believe that you have to have certain values that are just, it's just what they are and you don't compromise those ever. And then you also need to have certain principles of what you're trying to achieve depending upon the particular negotiation. If you're trying to solve a problem, like my example earlier on Venezuela, where the assets have been expropriated by their government, when you're solving a problem or you could be trying to capture an opportunity. But if you have certain principles, that what's really, really important and everyone that's working with you and the negotiation, they understand those principles. And then in some cases, I think it's important for the other party to understand those principles. So however you choose to do that, I mentioned earlier in that one example, by creating a framework for the negotiations, because it was that approach was due to a specific circumstance. But the principles became very, very transparent. So they were kind of, these are the principles. And I just gave you an example of one of the principles at that time. One of the principles was that once we agreed to something, that we would document it and we keep it there. So that we didn't say, well, I think you said this and I think you agreed this. No, we've agreed to this particular point and we're going to document it. Now in that case, that wasn't for political reasons, that wasn't acceptable. But the principles are very complicated. But I think it's important to say I have very strong values, I have principles that are very much a function of what you're trying to do, and then conduct yourself in that way. I think, being very principle based in your negotiating, in your decision making and then your approach with other people gives you the best chance for success. And that's how I'd prepare myself. So I would think about, you know, the values never change. So it's not like you're saying, oh, my values on this particular problem are 123. Those always stay the same. What's important is everyone and usually there can be a lot of people, but everyone shares those same values. And then the principles can be different, depending on what you're trying to do. And so I think the preparation is thinking about what those are, and then kind of conducting your business that way, on a very principle based approach.
Ludovic:
So preparation seems to be quite important. And you seem to, I mean, give importance to preparation. It’s true there's a number of people who rely on expertise or the experience and just go to negotiation thinking they can solve any problem, because they have that experience and expertise. But what you're saying is that, probably it's not because you have this, you have to prepare and think about your values, think ahead of the negotiation, and think about your principles. And yes, think ahead.
Greg:
Because I think what happens, Ludo, is that it can be different depending on who you're... You can be dealing with someone in the US government, or you could be dealing with someone in Vietnam, you could be dealing with another company. So I think it is a little bit different. There may be differences, they may be subtle sometimes, but they are probably very important. And being very principle based, I think helps in what you do to go forward.
Ludovic:
You've been a busy man, an extensive traveler, even if now, you probably travel a little less like everyone else. You've had great pressure and accepted great responsibility. What daily routines have you developed to keep on track and maintain this peak performance and balance in your life? You were talking earlier, before we start the interview, there were a few activities that you enjoy, but I'll let you answer.
Greg:
Yeah, probably two things that I think are important. I think one is, as an individual, just your physical and mental well-being, you should just take really good care of yourself. I mean, we talk a lot about respect and respecting other people, you actually need to respect yourself and you need to respect yourself as far as how you take care of yourself. And you know, everyone's pretty much aware of that, but just being active as a person and how you eat and how you take care of your mind, by learning and just engaging. I think it's very important. So that individual part about the physical and mental part is something that you just can't neglect. And it's really important to I think to like I said, just respect yourself as a human being, and take good care of yourself in every way that you can. And that takes time, it takes a desire to want to be able to do that and just doing it. Taking really good care of yourself. I think the second part of it is how you do things and what I found, what I always did was, and this may be sounds a little kind of corny, but with a friend of mine, we developed this a long time ago, what we call it was like sourcing yourself. So you'd kind of look and say, how do you want to source yourself on things that you want to do? And when I do that, and I do when I'm involved in different things, is I look at all the different groups of people that I'm going to be working with. So if you're the CEO of a company, you may say one of the groups of people that I want to source myself with, so that I know how I'm going to be with those people is like the board of directors, another may be the employees of the company. And now there may be the communities. But I think if you think about how you want to source yourself with what you're trying to do, then I think it just helps you out a lot better. And what I tried to always do is have very specific things that I wanted to achieve when I was talking about trying to force myself to do something. I kind of think out like what would it look like if everyone was successful at some point in time to achieve whatever you're working on. And I just call it sourcing, I've been doing it probably for two to three decades. Something like that, when I first started doing this. Actually, I lived in Europe at the time, when I really started looking at maybe how I am as a leader and how I want to live my life. And in some different stages in my life, I just do this. I just sat down about three months ago and said, here I am today in my life, how do I want to source myself for the rest of my life? That's what I did. I just said what is it I want to do? What is really the most important things to me? And you know what's interesting, Ludo, when you do that is? Then you go back and say, if that's true, are you doing those things today? And in my own, and I'll tell you using myself as an example, what I always find is the things that I think are the most important to me, I don't spend as much time on them as I want to and as I need to because other things get in the way. And so therefore you have to be more one, conscious and more deliberate to say I got to get back on what I want to do, how I've sourced myself as a person. So that's how I kind of prepare. Kind of a long answer to it, but I found it to work pretty well at least how I try to do things.
Ludovic:
It's great. It's great insight. Do you wake up every day at the same time? Do you take your coffee with your newspaper? Do you have this kind of routine? Any activities you try to avoid, because you want time for yourself, are there any things that you do every day like this? And is there small routines that probably not something very important, but probably important for you because that's a kind of a ritual.
Greg:
I don't like routines that are every day. And this may sound a little bit crazy, but even driving to work. I don't like driving the same way every day. I’ve got to go a different way. I don't know. I feel like having a real defined routine, it kind of puts you, you get into a rut. And I know that sounds a little crazy that someone says I only want to drive to work the same way but honestly, I don't like to do that. I like to -- it's not like I change every single day. That's not possible. But I can't just say oh, shoot, I've been driving this way for the last six years every single day. I don't do that. I find a different way and drive a different way. Mainly because you can then look around. If you're driving if you do the same thing every day, if you have a routine that you kind of miss out sometimes what's going on around you so you got to break out of that. If I had to chaos, I prefer that over routine. I like chaos. I like lots of thing and I just feel you've got to step up your game. You don't want to be in constant chaos. I'm not saying that. But if I had a scale between on a spectrum of a routine to chaos, I would want to be cast in the middle of it and moving towards chaos than trying to get myself back into a routine. That's just how I am.
Ludovic:
Yeah, I mean you can push yourself. That's probably what you’re saying.
Greg:
Yeah.
Ludovic:
My last question for you would be, what are the three flaws that a negotiator should avoid according to you, if you had three?
Well I think that's a great question. I'll probably go back and say what are the thing that you really want to avoid and I guess I would absolutely try to avoid these things myself. And if people are asking for my advice, I would also share them with them. I think the first thing, and I think we probably talked about all these so far in our discussions. So I think it’s important maybe to come back and highlight them. The first one is avoid not being prepared. We talked about this just a few minutes ago. I think that's really important. If you think that you know it so well and it's a no brainer and you can just go in and do it how you think you're going to do it. That could be a mistake. So I think the first thing is, avoid not being prepared. The second thing that we've also talked about is, a little bit about when we talked about cultural awareness and things. I think you avoid not taking time to both understand and appreciate the other party, whoever it is, the individual or a customer, the government or whatever. Take time to understand where they come from, what's important to them, listen to them and just think about it. And you don't want to impose your will upon someone and think that those things are just going to be..., they may be important to them but they're not important to me. That type of an attitude. I think it's not going to work. So the second flaw I can say is to make sure you avoid thinking you can do that. So don't, understand. And then I think the third thing is, like I said earlier is I believe -- and this is for maybe more important negotiations because there has to be, as you know, you can never negotiate lots of little things every day with our family and I mean there's always pre-dose on everything.
Ludovic:
You children as well…
Greg:
Yeah. But I think the other thing is you need to understand, what is it that would be avoid beginning into a position where you don't understand what a good deal is for everyone. You may understand what it is for yourself and you gave the example of Americans about winning and if you approve something where you say this is, and you have this views, I'm going to win. I think you need to avoid that, you need to kind of say if there's an outcome, where does an outcome fit? It's going to be acceptable to both parties but don't avoid thinking that your outcome is the only outcome. And if that doesn't happen, it’s not going to work because you have to be willing to. It's not a single discussion here. You need to get both parties to find that place where it works, I didn't say when but where it works. Recognizing there has to be maybe some give and take and when that doesn't happen and when you can't find that place. That means you're not going to get to where you need to get to. But the flaws I think, your question is a very, very good question because I think it's so easy and maybe it’s an American to think I'm going to win, and that's all there is to it. If I'm going to win then this is all that matter, this is all that has to happen and if it doesn't happen, it’s okay. It doesn't matter. It doesn't work that way to be honest with you. You've got to understand that and so probably, your question earlier about how you prepare and thing like that. I think and awareness of the flaws is really, really important. Because if you disagree with those flaws then we'll see how successful a person will be, we'll see if it works out.
Ludovic:
Yeah. It's about win-win and not win-lose. And it's basically what you were saying before. That's great. These are great insights and I'm sure that our audience is going to like this and hopefully apply this in their negotiations. So now, I have some speed run questions for you and you have to answer.
Greg:
Okay
Ludovic:
A choice… you can elaborate if you want to. I hope you'll find them interesting. So to tie or no tie?
Greg:
Absolutely no tie.
Ludovic:
Logic or gut feeling?
Greg:
More gut feeling.
Ludovic:
Okay. You can explain if you want, no problem. Utah Jazz or Grizzlies?
Greg:
Ludovic:
Lakers?
Greg:
Long time Lakers fan.
Ludovic:
Okay. Back riding or fishing?
Greg:
Fishing
Ludovic:
Whiskey or Wine?
Greg:
A nice red wine. Preferably, Californian. Sorry from your background but I love nice Californian Red wines.
Ludovic:
Pinot from the Napa Valley, I would imagine.
Greg:
Yeah
Ludovic:
Bangkok or Singapore? You were talking about chaos and order. That's a good example.
Greg:
Yeah, depends on what I want to do. They're both in the resting places, very different you know? You're right.
Ludovic:
You have to choose one.
Greg:
Well, it depends on what day.
Ludovic:
Okay. What about today?
Greg:
Singapore
Ludovic:
Tradition or innovation?
Greg:
Innovation.
Ludovic:
If you were a song, what would it be?
Greg:
If I were a song, it would be about tomorrow.
Ludovic:
Okay.
Greg:
Where are we going? The song would be about as a world, where are we going?
Ludovic:
Okay, well then you're going to love the next question. Would you travel in a bus or in a future?
Greg:
Future.
Ludovic:
Okay, why is that?
Greg:
Just change. I like change, I like different things so always to see something very different to make you look at the world differently. To make you think about it differently and make you see what's possible, not matter where you are. Like you're in Vietnam, I'm in Texas and we're kind of looking at what's possible.
Ludovic:
Great. Would you prefer to have dinner with Donald Trump or Barrack Obama?
Greg:
Neither one.
Ludovic:
Okay.
Greg:
Other people. I would have a preference for other people
Ludovic:
Okay. Alright, fair enough. I'm not going to ask you to choose on that one. Okay, well that was our interview. Thank you very much, Greg for this great interview and for your insights again. I wish you the best of luck in the US and I hope to have the pleasure of meeting you again. Maybe over a nice bottle of wine.
Greg:
Thank you Ludo, nice spending some time with you today. And good luck with everything that you do also.
Ludovic:
Thank you.
Greg:
All the best.
Ludovic:
Thank you.
